#004: The Art of Nonprofit Funding

Kate McNulty, Principal Consultant of Federal Grants and Philanthropy at Atrómitos, unpacks the strategies behind securing nonprofit funding. With nearly two decades of experience, Kate shares expert insights on federal grants, diversifying revenue, and sustainable growth. The conversation also touches on her career journey, unexpected experiences, and dream of launching a cookie truck.

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Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;12;14
Kate McNulty
You are asking people for money and some people feel very uncomfortable with that. And so having someone who can come in and sort of model how you go about asking for money and who does the asking, like.

00;00;12;14 - 00;00;14;17
Kate McNulty
What everybody's role is.

00;00;14;19 - 00;00;29;08
Kate McNulty
Because you might be a nurse who or a mental health worker who's identifying someone who they think is a prospect for a donation, but that person's not necessarily going to ask for funding, and these relationships take a long time to form.

00;00;29;11 - 00;00;51;09
Liz Church
Welcome to the Atrómitos Way Podcast, where we have meaningful discussions on the challenges in healthcare and the solutions behind them. I am your host, Liz Church. Each episode, we dive into the complexities of our health and social system, gaining the experiences and insights of the guests that shape our lives and our communities.  The world of grant funding is a vast endeavor that takes a great deal steps, oversights and strategic planning.

00;00;51;13 - 00;01;10;11
Liz Church
Let's be real. It's no easy feat. And sometimes the walk to get to that grant seems miles away. Luckily for you all, I happen to know just the person who can help get you started. As we embark on this interview, we'll focus on how nonprofits should approach funding and philanthropy, and why it's so crucial for their sustainability and growth.

00;01;10;13 - 00;01;37;14
Liz Church
We'll unpack the significance of strategic funding approaches and the pivotal role they play in advancing organizational missions. With me today is another member of my team. You get to meet one more. Ladies and gentlemen, Kate McNulty, principal consultant of federal grants and Philanthropy Overdramatize. She spent more than a decade helping nonprofit organizations navigate the intricacies of federal funding to increase their chances of success, and what is a highly competitive market.

00;01;37;16 - 00;01;55;03
Liz Church
She also has a strong background in grant writing, as well as an uncanny ability to identify growth opportunities. And in this episode, we'll start off with some fun questions to get to know her better and then dive into her grant expertise. Without further ado. Hi, Kate. Welcome to the podcast.

00;01;55;05 - 00;01;56;17
Kate McNulty
Thank you for having me.

00;01;56;19 - 00;02;05;22
Liz Church
In order for our audiences to learn more about you, Kate, I'm going to ask you three personalized questions. First, if you could live anywhere in the world, where would it be?

00;02;05;25 - 00;02;11;20
Kate McNulty
Are. You know, I think if I could travel anywhere, that would be a better question for someone like me, because.

00;02;11;22 - 00;02;11;28
Kate McNulty
I.

00;02;11;28 - 00;02;12;12
Kate McNulty
Like where.

00;02;12;12 - 00;02;13;12
Kate McNulty
I live.

00;02;13;14 - 00;02;20;21
Kate McNulty
And Twitter how seven years ago. And so I'm very invested in being in my house all the time in the place that I live.

00;02;21;17 - 00;02;21;27
Kate McNulty
because, you know.

00;02;21;27 - 00;02;25;29
Kate McNulty
You have to pay. I don't know if you know that, but when you get a mortgage, they make you pay.

00;02;26;02 - 00;02;28;24
Kate McNulty
And so I like to be at home in.

00;02;28;24 - 00;02;45;13
Kate McNulty
My home, and I pick the right place to live. So I live in northeastern Connecticut. It's very beautiful. You know, I'm surrounded by woods, but then I can go to Boston and New York really easily. We're sort of right smack in the middle of the two. in terms of travelers, you know, I'm a big proponent of the cruise ship.

00;02;45;16 - 00;02;47;23
Kate McNulty
I like to go and, you know.

00;02;47;23 - 00;02;49;11
Kate McNulty
Do nothing.

00;02;49;13 - 00;02;57;24
Kate McNulty
For multiple days at sea. So, yeah. So I would live right where I am.

00;02;57;26 - 00;03;03;22
Liz Church
So then with the next one, one. What's one thing in your career that you did not expect to experience?

00;03;03;22 - 00;03;05;25
Kate McNulty
Well, at one.

00;03;05;25 - 00;03;10;13
Kate McNulty
Point I was I had a job where I was answering the phones.

00;03;10;16 - 00;03;10;22
Kate McNulty
For.

00;03;10;22 - 00;03;21;18
Kate McNulty
United States Senator and repeatedly, you know, people don't call the one 800 line because they're super happy with their candy bar. They call because there's a nail and they want a refund, right.

00;03;21;20 - 00;03;22;12
Kate McNulty
So sort.

00;03;22;12 - 00;03;24;24
Kate McNulty
Of this same premise goes for these.

00;03;25;01 - 00;03;25;22
Kate McNulty
Phone lines.

00;03;25;22 - 00;03;32;15
Kate McNulty
So we get people who felt very passionate about issues and would ask me questions like, how can you live with yourself? You're absolutely.

00;03;32;15 - 00;03;34;04
Kate McNulty
Soulless.

00;03;34;06 - 00;03;39;05
Kate McNulty
And it was, you know, this was the early 2000, and I realized that with this sort.

00;03;39;05 - 00;03;40;07
Kate McNulty
Of.

00;03;40;09 - 00;03;50;28
Kate McNulty
Advent of more, you know, texting and social media stuff, that people are less cautious in the way that they express themselves. But to me, at that point, at 22, 23 years old, I was.

00;03;50;28 - 00;03;55;13
Kate McNulty
Very shocked to be told that I was soulless. And I.

00;03;55;13 - 00;03;56;07
Kate McNulty
Was just trying to answer the.

00;03;56;07 - 00;03;58;14
Kate McNulty
Phone or and.

00;03;58;14 - 00;04;05;00
Kate McNulty
Take down what their thoughts were about something. And I just, I think it was the making it so personal. Some people made it very personal.

00;04;05;00 - 00;04;06;04
Kate McNulty
And so it was.

00;04;06;06 - 00;04;11;21
Kate McNulty
It should be exposed in some ways. But yeah, that's maybe the experience I was not expecting to be told.

00;04;11;21 - 00;04;17;07
Kate McNulty
Repeatedly by people who called frequently that I was soulless.

00;04;17;09 - 00;04;31;18
Liz Church
I feel like people that are in those kind of careers, and especially like the service industry, they see the worst of the worst in people. And, when you're in those positions, it just reaffirms that how important it is to be a good human.

00;04;31;21 - 00;04;33;22
Kate McNulty
Right and not be.

00;04;33;24 - 00;04;35;00
Liz Church
A butthead, you know?

00;04;35;00 - 00;04;39;18
Kate McNulty
Yeah, that's a good that's a good kind of. Don't be a butthead.

00;04;39;21 - 00;04;47;17
Kate McNulty
But yeah, I mean, my parents were never really they were pretty strict 20% tippers until I waitressed. Right. So sometimes I think you need.

00;04;47;19 - 00;04;47;27
Kate McNulty
That.

00;04;47;27 - 00;04;49;29
Kate McNulty
Proximity to a person.

00;04;50;13 - 00;05;03;19
Kate McNulty
Before you can really understand, like, the damage you might be doing to someone just by doing something sort of casually cruel that you. It doesn't seem that way to you because it's not your precious child. I developed a very thick skin.

00;05;03;21 - 00;05;05;19
Kate McNulty
So if we don't.

00;05;05;19 - 00;05;09;05
Kate McNulty
Have a personal relationship, you can say anything to me and I'll pretty much.

00;05;09;05 - 00;05;12;00
Kate McNulty
Be like, okay, that's okay.

00;05;12;03 - 00;05;12;24
Kate McNulty
The sentences are.

00;05;12;24 - 00;05;13;16
Kate McNulty
Words.

00;05;13;19 - 00;05;21;20
Kate McNulty
It's hard. You know, you learn not to personalize everything that people said and sort of like try to take it in the context that this person's very upset.

00;05;21;22 - 00;05;22;24
Kate McNulty
And so.

00;05;22;27 - 00;05;28;00
Kate McNulty
You know, that's your monkey in your circus. And when I hang up this phone, you're taking that monkey with you.

00;05;28;02 - 00;05;29;26
Kate McNulty
Yes. I love.

00;05;29;26 - 00;05;32;24
Liz Church
That phrase. I might use that someday.

00;05;32;26 - 00;05;36;23
Kate McNulty
Oh, my mom said that on fine. Yeah. It's not a new problem, Kate.

00;05;36;27 - 00;05;38;18
Kate McNulty
What do you problem?

00;05;38;20 - 00;05;45;15
Liz Church
That's a big that's. Or you're already teaching us lessons early in the episode. I just love it.

00;05;45;17 - 00;05;47;23
Kate McNulty
Those are kind of McNulty's lessons.

00;05;49;10 - 00;05;56;17
Liz Church
If you're coming to us live. So with the last one I have for you. If you could start a business tomorrow, what would it be?

00;05;56;27 - 00;06;01;18
Kate McNulty
I would have a cookie truck. I would bake cookies and sell.

00;06;01;18 - 00;06;14;25
Kate McNulty
Them out of my cookie truck. And it would make me enough money to just live comfortably. So little that I'm stressed out. But just right. I love to bake. It's very relaxing to me. My husband has amazing genetics.

00;06;14;28 - 00;06;17;01
Kate McNulty
So he can eat whatever he wants.

00;06;17;03 - 00;06;23;10
Kate McNulty
Which is fortunate for me. But you know, he's still health conscious. Like this isn't super healthy. And I'm always like, well, it's not Oreos.

00;06;23;10 - 00;06;26;28
Kate McNulty
From the store, so that's nice. But I would.

00;06;27;01 - 00;06;31;19
Kate McNulty
You know, I like to kind of mess around with ingredients and flavors often.

00;06;31;21 - 00;06;33;14
Kate McNulty
I watch all amounts of.

00;06;33;20 - 00;06;35;02
Kate McNulty
Great British Baking Show.

00;06;35;02 - 00;06;36;24
Kate McNulty
And have like the TV.

00;06;36;24 - 00;06;38;13
Kate McNulty
Days because you can't get them all on Netflix.

00;06;38;13 - 00;06;45;03
Kate McNulty
Anymore. So, so that's show over about. So yeah, I have a cookie.

00;06;45;06 - 00;06;50;29
Liz Church
Oh my goodness. Like, are you like, do you, do you have a favorite cookie? Do you have one that you make.

00;06;52;03 - 00;06;56;14
Kate McNulty
It's like a it's sort of like a, seven layer bar. Do you know what that is?

00;06;56;16 - 00;06;58;01
Kate McNulty
I do.

00;06;58;03 - 00;07;18;11
Kate McNulty
So literally, you just make your own, like, chocolate chip cookie dough base, and then you put in a whole package of chocolate chips. a whole package. I think it's a Lebanon package of shredded coconut and a whole same size package of walnuts or whatever your favorite part is, and then you just bake them and they're big and they get puffy, and they're just really delicious.

00;07;18;14 - 00;07;21;08
Kate McNulty
So they're not overly sweet because of my, my sweet.

00;07;21;10 - 00;07;22;10
Kate McNulty
And I use more.

00;07;22;10 - 00;07;24;07
Kate McNulty
Brown sugar than white. So they have a little.

00;07;24;07 - 00;07;28;20
Kate McNulty
Bit of a deeper buttery taste. But yeah, that was that's what I.

00;07;28;20 - 00;07;37;25
Liz Church
Love that we should do that. I'm I'm supporting this idea. Okay. I really yeah. Like you said, cookies are my I don't know I know no one's going to see my face, but I was like, oh, cookies.

00;07;37;27 - 00;07;38;08
Kate McNulty
Oh, you're.

00;07;38;08 - 00;07;44;02
Kate McNulty
A marketing, right? You'd be careful. One of these days I'll pull up outside your house and honk, honk and be like, we'll go.

00;07;44;04 - 00;07;50;07
Kate McNulty
You'd be like, I was kidding. And I'll be like, I have an on record this year that you wanted to do.

00;07;50;10 - 00;07;53;23
Kate McNulty
It's the Ejemplos cookie truck. Oh, my gosh.

00;07;53;29 - 00;07;58;21
Liz Church
We're doing it, everybody. Stay tuned. We're going to have a cookie truck.

00;07;58;23 - 00;08;00;16
Kate McNulty
I'd be fabulous. I'd love it.

00;08;00;18 - 00;08;11;08
Liz Church
Oh, goodness. So then. So pivoting from the personal to professional. Let's dive into your background and expertise. What's your experience with funding development?

00;08;11;10 - 00;08;18;25
Kate McNulty
Actually, I started my career working as an assistant clerk for the Connecticut General Assembly on the finance, Revenue and Bonding Committee.

00;08;18;27 - 00;08;21;15
Kate McNulty
So there yes, I have a I have.

00;08;21;15 - 00;08;33;25
Kate McNulty
A I had a bachelor's degree in history. And so it was a bit of a leap, but I was, you know, looking for a job, I was interested this was sort of on the, on the heels of the 2000 presidential election, which I found so.

00;08;33;25 - 00;08;36;11
Kate McNulty
Just horrible to.

00;08;36;11 - 00;08;52;09
Kate McNulty
Have Corinne Lieberman win and then not take office just seemed like a sort of terrible thing. And so I wanted to get involved in politics, and this was a job opening, and I took it. And from there I started to go to graduate school. And as I was doing that, I realized that I still needed to like, eat and live somewhere.

00;08;52;09 - 00;08;52;21
Kate McNulty
So I had.

00;08;52;21 - 00;08;56;08
Kate McNulty
To have a job during that too. That's important.

00;08;56;11 - 00;09;15;05
Kate McNulty
Right? Yeah. And so I applied for a job in Senator Lieberman's office answering phones. And so that's how I started. I was there answering phones for about eight months. And then my boss said, Brennan, you know, is leaving and you're taking his job and it's full time. And I was like, well, but I just I'm just finishing my first year of graduate school.

00;09;15;05 - 00;09;17;20
Kate McNulty
I don't have time, she said. It's in the back that way.

00;09;17;23 - 00;09;19;21
Kate McNulty
It's full time. Welcome aboard.

00;09;19;21 - 00;09;35;05
Kate McNulty
And I was like, okay, so I guess I'll do that. And that job was, case work for grants and foundation funding, taxes, small business case work, student loans, housing, and then appropriations. So and of course, the.

00;09;35;07 - 00;09;36;19
Kate McNulty
The more popular things I.

00;09;36;19 - 00;10;01;14
Kate McNulty
Did had to do with the financial pieces and all those things, of course, have a little financial aspect to them, which is why they were all sat together. So I worked a lot with nonprofits and municipalities around what the federal grant options were, how to go about identifying them, reading the notice of funding opportunity, which have sort of in the 20 some years I've been doing this, has become increasingly complicated.

00;10;01;14 - 00;10;20;28
Kate McNulty
Those notices. I know you've seen some of them before, and it's really, you know, there's like two sections of them. They're really wildly detailed, and sometimes they seem repetitive or redundant. so I help people with that, and I help them to understand when that wasn't going to be an option, because federal grants are very much a square hole, square peg to look at foundation funding.

00;10;20;28 - 00;10;22;28
Kate McNulty
So even though it's not a federal.

00;10;23;00 - 00;10;23;14
Kate McNulty
Thing.

00;10;23;21 - 00;10;29;00
Kate McNulty
Excuse me, I did help people figure out how to go about finding foundation funding, because sometimes you need.

00;10;29;03 - 00;10;32;15
Kate McNulty
A more wiggly hole for you're not sure what's going in.

00;10;32;15 - 00;10;49;16
Kate McNulty
There. So there's that. And so I spent the bulk of my time working with nonprofits and municipalities to identify state and federal funding to help them. And then from there, I moved to work as a chief of staff at the Connecticut Department of Mental Health and Addiction Services, and then was responsible for overseeing the federal grants program there.

00;10;49;18 - 00;10;59;22
Kate McNulty
And that kind of gave me more hands on, like how to organize and develop a program that you're applying for the grant. But, you know, I had the experience on the other side, so.

00;10;59;22 - 00;11;01;21
Kate McNulty
I was prepared.

00;11;01;24 - 00;11;10;00
Kate McNulty
For that. But it was very it was very rewarding working with the department to sort of take the time to of what was needed in Connecticut.

00;11;10;02 - 00;11;11;12
Kate McNulty
So like through.

00;11;11;12 - 00;11;37;22
Kate McNulty
Most of the grants are through, Substance Abuse Mental Health Services Administration or SAMHSa. And so kind of looking at like, you know, we had some early, early diversion grants, which was to help sort of keep kids, mostly young men who were experiencing their first psychotic break out of prison because when someone so young. Right, you don't want to wait, you know, have this horrible thing and have them lose their way entirely in life and get off to the wrong start.

00;11;37;22 - 00;12;00;23
Kate McNulty
You want to sort of divert them from that and give them services and of course, have them not commit more crimes because nobody wants that. So, okay. And it was and then on that side, you know, I was there I think Sandy hook happened to months after I came on board. And it was very traumatic, of course, for everybody who's involved in this response to that through our burn unit.

00;12;00;25 - 00;12;29;28
Kate McNulty
And we spent a lot of time working with the SAMHSa again to sort of figure out what the state needed and were these bills and, the Connecticut General Assembly sort of trying to respond to what had happened. And so at that point, I had my introduction to creating RFP for programing because we had a couple things to pull, put together, one of which was sort of community treatment, which is sort of more wraparound services with people with very serious persistent mental illness or co-occurring disorders.

00;12;29;28 - 00;12;31;02
Kate McNulty
And so I.

00;12;31;04 - 00;12;31;11
Kate McNulty
Worked.

00;12;31;11 - 00;12;52;26
Kate McNulty
With our my colleagues at Demas to develop what the program needs to look like, and then issued this RFP and went through the responses from the different organizations. And, you know, sort of like I got to work with our contract people and our finance people. It was a lot of it was a big learning experience, because that had been sort of the one piece that I hadn't done, funding up until then.

00;12;52;26 - 00;12;59;27
Kate McNulty
Like I've been on the side of applying for it and explaining federal funding, but I hadn't been on the side of sort of creating.

00;12;59;29 - 00;13;00;05
Kate McNulty
A.

00;13;00;05 - 00;13;01;28
Kate McNulty
Program for people to respond to.

00;13;02;02 - 00;13;03;13
Kate McNulty
So it was really.

00;13;03;15 - 00;13;04;20
Kate McNulty
I really enjoyed it.

00;13;04;22 - 00;13;05;07
Kate McNulty
I really enjoyed.

00;13;05;07 - 00;13;12;20
Kate McNulty
It. And I think it, you know, those things, it's a lot of work and it's, you know, to be very detail oriented, but it does so much good for the community.

00;13;12;20 - 00;13;13;26
Kate McNulty
So I felt.

00;13;13;26 - 00;13;17;11
Kate McNulty
Really fortunate to be part of, of that, of that response.

00;13;17;13 - 00;13;33;11
Liz Church
So you you had said that when organizations may not be eligible for federal funding to look at foundation funding, how do you look for that foundation funding? Yeah, because with the federal funding generally, that's like a that's easily accessible through government hosted websites.

00;13;33;11 - 00;13;35;25
Kate McNulty
Correct? Okay. Yes. Yes.

00;13;35;27 - 00;13;55;25
Kate McNulty
And the and the federal government, most agencies forecast to what they're going to have out every fiscal year. So you can kind of get a head start on what they're doing. But you have to do the work with foundation funding. It's not as easy to track down. There are services that you can be part of. like Grants Watch is one that you could use to sort of like streamline.

00;13;55;25 - 00;14;01;24
Kate McNulty
You know, you're in this state and you're looking for health and human services type funding or small business funding.

00;14;01;26 - 00;14;02;14
Kate McNulty
And then it's.

00;14;02;14 - 00;14;20;08
Kate McNulty
Googling and things like that. My advice to anybody, I guess, who is just starting out would be to try to figure out what your peer organizations have done and are doing in terms of foundation funding and sometimes people put out, sometimes people, sometimes entities put out annual.

00;14;20;08 - 00;14;21;17
Kate McNulty
Reports.

00;14;21;19 - 00;14;43;04
Kate McNulty
And sometimes in the back of the annual report, you can find out who their donors are and where their major gifts have come from, and a foundation grant. While the manner in which you acquire it is different than you do from an individual or corporate donor and, sort of rules around, tracking it and spending it are a little more strict.

00;14;43;11 - 00;14;47;11
Kate McNulty
It is still considered a donation.

00;14;47;23 - 00;14;49;01
Kate McNulty
it's not it's.

00;14;49;01 - 00;14;50;12
Kate McNulty
Not like a federal grant is.

00;14;50;12 - 00;14;51;13
Kate McNulty
Different.

00;14;51;15 - 00;14;59;27
Kate McNulty
But any foundation funding goes in with just the donor funding. And because they're still considered grants. But this word grants kind of gets thrown around.

00;15;00;09 - 00;15;03;05
Kate McNulty
it's sort of this very loose word now.

00;15;03;18 - 00;15;13;01
Kate McNulty
I wish it was a bit more specific or we had more specific language for different types of funding. You have to kind of just put in the research work.

00;15;13;03 - 00;15;13;29
Kate McNulty
Or.

00;15;14;01 - 00;15;26;27
Kate McNulty
Somebody else to do it for you. And say, look, I'm looking to fund this. For instance, you could reach out to me and I will help you to figure that out through a job. It's as easy as it is hard. I'd start.

00;15;26;27 - 00;15;29;00
Kate McNulty
With reviewing what.

00;15;29;00 - 00;15;32;18
Kate McNulty
Peer organizations have been doing.

00;15;32;21 - 00;15;32;25
Kate McNulty
And.

00;15;32;25 - 00;15;54;02
Liz Church
So is there. I mean, obviously researching is is definitely key. When you're thinking about it, though. Is there an easy way to do this strategy? Because obviously with a lot of organizations, there are a lot of people wearing a lot of different hats. So building this kind of thing could be pretty complex, but it's important to do so.

00;15;54;02 - 00;15;56;14
Liz Church
Can you explain why it's important to do so?

00;15;56;22 - 00;16;09;23
Kate McNulty
Why is important to build a fund development program? I think as a nonprofit, you most nonprofits have something in place that they might not define specifically as fund development.

00;16;09;26 - 00;16;11;02
Kate McNulty
But it is fund.

00;16;11;02 - 00;16;39;28
Kate McNulty
Development. So if your organization has been providing residential services for justice involved girls through, you know, your judicial branch of your state for 13 years, you still have to rebid that right when the time comes. And you're not necessarily always going to get it just because you've had it before. So that's one of those things. Like for that, you would involve want to be able to involve your development staff in.

00;16;40;00 - 00;16;54;13
Kate McNulty
Because a lot of the pieces that like you're required to submit are probably things that sit in that department. And these are people who have experience describing programs. Right. That's pretty much your fund development professionals job is to be able to really well, really.

00;16;54;20 - 00;16;54;29
Kate McNulty
Be able.

00;16;54;29 - 00;16;56;03
Kate McNulty
To describe.

00;16;56;06 - 00;16;57;29
Kate McNulty
All the programs under your.

00;16;57;29 - 00;16;59;04
Kate McNulty
Organization really.

00;16;59;04 - 00;17;00;06
Kate McNulty
Well.

00;17;00;08 - 00;17;19;28
Kate McNulty
And have a feel for, you know, how best to deliver that information to any given audience, whether it's the state or the federal government or a private donor or a corporation? that is that person's job. So I always think that those things, even if they don't sit perfectly squarely in that fund development department, they should be connected.

00;17;20;04 - 00;17;22;28
Kate McNulty
There's things that that that department should know about.

00;17;23;01 - 00;17;23;10
Kate McNulty
I think it's.

00;17;23;10 - 00;17;29;10
Kate McNulty
Important to diversify the funds that you have that you're leaning on, because.

00;17;29;12 - 00;17;30;21
Kate McNulty
It's just.

00;17;30;23 - 00;17;53;28
Kate McNulty
It's not stable enough fiscal atmosphere ever. Pretty much that I've ever seen any way where you wouldn't want to say yes, let's let's make sure that we have lots of friends and champions in the community who can help us if we need to, for instance, do a capital campaign and let's make sure that, we have a federal grant program that's going to help us make an operational change that we need to make.

00;17;54;09 - 00;18;11;24
Kate McNulty
and that that's going to last five years. But then we're also doing sustainability planning as we're doing that, because, you know, that ends too. It's sort of this constant, like one of my favorite questions. And I think we have a foundation grants is how do you plan to perpetuate this program. And the answer is Kate McCurdy.

00;18;11;24 - 00;18;12;04
Kate McNulty
Is going.

00;18;12;04 - 00;18;28;00
Kate McNulty
To perpetuate that program. Like this is just something you constantly are doing. There's no like without it turning into a program that's supported, for instance, by something like Medicaid, like a huge entitlement program. you will constantly sort of be fundraising for these things.

00;18;28;12 - 00;18;28;19
Kate McNulty
so.

00;18;28;19 - 00;18;46;00
Kate McNulty
If you're not already doing it, it's an uphill. It can be a, it could be a heavy lift if it's not something that your organization is already doing. And that's when I would say you want to get some professional assistance, because even if you're the CEO and you.

00;18;46;07 - 00;18;46;15
Kate McNulty
You.

00;18;46;15 - 00;18;54;00
Kate McNulty
Been a development officer, let's say, telling people internally, you know, in your staff, getting that buy.

00;18;54;00 - 00;18;55;05
Kate McNulty
In sometimes.

00;18;55;05 - 00;19;15;27
Kate McNulty
Is easier when you have that outside source coming in as a professional and saying, so this is why we do this. We do this because it supports our operation. It allows us to make changes, and these are the things we have to do. And it's not as scary as you think it is. Right? Because with fund development entity piece of it, you are asking people for money and some people feel very uncomfortable with that.

00;19;16;00 - 00;19;18;21
Kate McNulty
And so having someone who can come in and sort of model.

00;19;18;29 - 00;19;19;09
Kate McNulty
How.

00;19;19;09 - 00;19;23;00
Kate McNulty
You go about asking for money and who does the asking, like what everybody's.

00;19;23;00 - 00;19;24;10
Kate McNulty
Role is.

00;19;24;12 - 00;19;39;06
Kate McNulty
Because you might be a nurse who or a mental health worker who's identifying someone who they think is a prospect for a donation, but that person not necessarily going to ask for funding. And these relationships take a long time to form.

00;19;40;03 - 00;19;44;25
Kate McNulty
But I think that all in all, we're sort of getting off track here. But overall, it's important to have a really.

00;19;44;25 - 00;19;47;03
Kate McNulty
Diverse portfolio of.

00;19;47;07 - 00;19;49;02
Kate McNulty
Fundraising tactics.

00;19;49;04 - 00;20;06;09
Liz Church
And I mean diversifying and all of the thing is to is like that money will always be there too. So if you rely on one thing and it stops and also to you said this to me before that, it should not be a sole source of like income or revenue for the organization.

00;20;06;12 - 00;20;06;17
Kate McNulty
You know.

00;20;06;17 - 00;20;10;13
Kate McNulty
Put all your eggs in one basket, many baskets, multiple kinds of eggs.

00;20;10;15 - 00;20;12;20
Kate McNulty
Different colors. That's say.

00;20;12;22 - 00;20;13;23
Kate McNulty
Different colors.

00;20;14;16 - 00;20;14;26
Kate McNulty
colors.

00;20;15;01 - 00;20;31;16
Liz Church
But, one of the things I was going to ask was how they should set up, they being health care and human services organizations, how they should set up the development programs. But, you know, with a person being and being a part of the team and delegating and understanding the strategy, I feel like the answer.

00;20;31;16 - 00;20;47;25
Kate McNulty
Is like I always sort of say you want someone else to come in and look a little bit at what you're trying to do and give you some advice. Even if you're not, you know, you may end up saying, you know, it's a small enough program that we really want an outside vendor to handle the majority of it for us.

00;20;47;25 - 00;20;49;18
Kate McNulty
And we don't have leadership with.

00;20;49;18 - 00;20;49;29
Kate McNulty
These.

00;20;49;29 - 00;20;57;03
Kate McNulty
Skills. They're wonderful at their jobs. But this is not going to be something that translates for them. and our staff has buy in, but it's.

00;20;57;06 - 00;20;57;18
Kate McNulty
A.

00;20;57;20 - 00;21;13;09
Kate McNulty
Bake sale. Buy it. It's not like large scale philanthropy program buy in. And that's okay too. So having someone else come in and sort of help prop up the program as it gets going can help your staff get used to the idea.

00;21;13;12 - 00;21;15;00
Kate McNulty
Of being a charity, right?

00;21;15;00 - 00;21;23;19
Kate McNulty
Because we we talk about nonprofits or nonprofit health care organizations. Right. But your charity, it's a charity. You need assistance. it's just a.

00;21;23;21 - 00;21;23;27
Kate McNulty
It's.

00;21;23;27 - 00;21;25;29
Kate McNulty
A different way of thinking.

00;21;26;01 - 00;21;28;02
Kate McNulty
Right? Philanthropy is.

00;21;28;05 - 00;21;30;17
Kate McNulty
And it's not something most of us.

00;21;30;20 - 00;21;32;17
Kate McNulty
Are skilled.

00;21;32;17 - 00;21;39;26
Kate McNulty
At because you don't have to do it very often. Right? I think it's a matter of determining if you even need to first. Right. Do you need to make this.

00;21;39;26 - 00;21;41;05
Kate McNulty
Change and.

00;21;41;05 - 00;22;04;06
Kate McNulty
Then sort of figuring out why, what are you raising money for? What is it that you need? Right. Because if we're talking about general operations and there are grant programs that are for operations, they're few and far between in general, nobody really wants to give you money to keep the lights on. They want to give you money for fabulous programs that make them look really good for having given you this money.

00;22;04;06 - 00;22;06;02
Kate McNulty
Right. But,

00;22;06;04 - 00;22;07;12
Kate McNulty
So what program.

00;22;07;12 - 00;22;43;23
Kate McNulty
Are you interested in starting or what? Changing, interested in making and then be very specific about what the gaps in funding are, because while it would be fabulous for us to have stores of unrestricted and designated funding, it's very, very seldom is that the case that that's what you'll end up with. you have to be very careful because when you say to somebody, I need $50,000 to support this program, you need to spend that $50,000 on that program because you made at sort of an honor contract with the donor.

00;22;43;25 - 00;22;51;16
Kate McNulty
And years ago, there was a study done that showed that when asked, the donor.

00;22;51;29 - 00;23;01;27
Kate McNulty
When when asking donors how they would feel if an organization took a donation from them and then did not spend it as they had told them, the donor that they.

00;23;01;27 - 00;23;02;22
Kate McNulty
Would.

00;23;02;25 - 00;23;26;02
Kate McNulty
50% for like 53% of donors said that they would never donate to that charity again. So you have a donor retention problem, but like very swiftly have a donor retention problem. If you take donations and then do not spend them as you told the donor you would. That's not to say, though, that you can't go back and say you gave us $50,000 for this program, and then we got a hole in the roof.

00;23;26;04 - 00;23;34;23
Kate McNulty
Can we divert $10,000 to to manage this issue with our roof? And honestly, most donors are usually pretty amenable to that kind of thing.

00;23;35;20 - 00;23;39;17
Kate McNulty
It's rare for them to be like. No, only for this thing.

00;23;41;02 - 00;23;44;00
Kate McNulty
I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm sure it does. I've yet to experience that.

00;23;44;00 - 00;23;45;15
Kate McNulty
And I would.

00;23;45;28 - 00;23;49;18
Kate McNulty
because we have had to divert donor funds.

00;23;49;21 - 00;23;51;06
Kate McNulty
In the past,

00;23;51;09 - 00;23;56;08
Kate McNulty
For unforeseen emergencies. But but as you're looking at raising money, you want to look.

00;23;56;08 - 00;23;57;25
Kate McNulty
At what to.

00;23;57;28 - 00;23;59;18
Kate McNulty
What kind of program can you support.

00;23;59;18 - 00;24;01;07
Kate McNulty
Too? Yeah.

00;24;01;07 - 00;24;19;18
Kate McNulty
It may be that your program currently is only in a position to support heavier traffic of grants, right. And managing that kind of work. But you're not in a position yet where you're going to be doing. You're going to be looking for major gifts or setting up legacy societies or things like that. Yeah. Or doing grateful patient programs.

00;24;20;11 - 00;24;35;21
Kate McNulty
Then the grants can be a little bit easier to do, a little bit easier to manage. Pretty clear cut once you get it. What you have to do with it. You do have to do all of this constantly though. So I think that's like the thing going into it, knowing like in your head that this is a none of this is ever going to be a one off.

00;24;35;21 - 00;24;56;14
Kate McNulty
But again, you know, sort of modeling within the organization that you're making a change and you're going to be writing these grants and you sort of expect all hands on deck, and you have this company or this person who's in charge of these things. And when they ask you for stuff, provide it to them. So there's that sort of cascading from the top down saying, we're doing this, we're going to be writing more grants.

00;24;56;14 - 00;25;10;26
Kate McNulty
Make sure you're responding, and then making sure it's all really organized and transparent internally and externally. So and then, you know, we talked about we touched on this lightly, but doing kind of market research.

00;25;10;29 - 00;25;11;08
Kate McNulty
In your.

00;25;11;08 - 00;25;29;13
Kate McNulty
Area and across the country to see our people, our donors giving to organizations such as yours for the reasons that you need them to. So you might look at things like the National Philanthropic Trust or Nonprofit Scores or Philanthropy Roundtable. these are all sort of like organizations that are.

00;25;29;13 - 00;25;29;24
Kate McNulty
Give.

00;25;30;00 - 00;25;44;27
Kate McNulty
Advice about philanthropy. and look at the way that people are giving. And are you sort of in line with that? And if not, can you bring yourself in line, or do you need to sort of redirect? And then is your community like, do you have champions in the community?

00;25;44;27 - 00;26;06;25
Liz Church
I think that's something that people don't think about. I don't mean to sound so like I thought, this is how it was, but truly, when I came aboard and I was experiencing like what it is to apply for a grant, I literally thought it was just like an application and a piece of paper you typed. You just put in all your organization info what you do, and then you're done and you just wait.

00;26;06;25 - 00;26;12;03
Liz Church
But like this is an extensive process. There's a lot of management.

00;26;12;06 - 00;26;13;19
Kate McNulty
It's a lot of details.

00;26;13;19 - 00;26;25;20
Kate McNulty
And you have to have that person, especially with the federal grants and any other grants really too, who said this is great information, but it's in the wrong place in the grant where this is great information, but it doesn't answer the question.

00;26;25;22 - 00;26;26;02
Kate McNulty
Yeah.

00;26;26;13 - 00;26;30;14
Kate McNulty
yeah. So sometimes you just need that sort of person who's one step away.

00;26;31;10 - 00;26;31;28
Kate McNulty
from that.

00;26;31;28 - 00;26;54;08
Kate McNulty
I think that part of the point is when you're if you're going to have a philanthropy or fund development program, expect it to be perpetual and expect to spend some money on it. You can't raise a dollar without spending. It's something along the lines of like $0.36 on the dollar to raise a dollar for an event and like $0.20 on the dollar to raise a dollar if you're not hosting, like a fundraising event.

00;26;54;10 - 00;26;59;08
Kate McNulty
So there's always a price to it. And you have to do the reconciliation at the end of any sort.

00;26;59;08 - 00;27;00;24
Kate McNulty
Of, you know.

00;27;00;26 - 00;27;04;04
Kate McNulty
Year where you're looking at, how much do we spend on development and.

00;27;04;07 - 00;27;04;15
Kate McNulty
Was.

00;27;04;15 - 00;27;11;25
Kate McNulty
It worth it an hour? Is is my development department only doing what we consider traditional development, or do we have them doing other things?

00;27;12;17 - 00;27;24;24
Kate McNulty
Because oftentimes most small organizations aren't going to be able to say yes, only be the development professional. They'll be like, yes, be the development professional, but also do some marketing and some community relations. And those things don't.

00;27;24;24 - 00;27;26;05
Kate McNulty
Count in your.

00;27;26;05 - 00;27;29;24
Kate McNulty
Fund development because they're not those are separate things. Right.

00;27;29;26 - 00;27;31;14
Kate McNulty
And it's.

00;27;31;16 - 00;27;34;28
Kate McNulty
I think that when you're developing your program.

00;27;35;27 - 00;27;36;09
Kate McNulty
and you've.

00;27;36;09 - 00;27;37;12
Kate McNulty
Accepted.

00;27;37;14 - 00;27;37;22
Kate McNulty
That.

00;27;37;22 - 00;27;42;17
Kate McNulty
It costs money to make money, you have to sort of figure.

00;27;42;17 - 00;27;44;11
Kate McNulty
Out what does what does.

00;27;44;13 - 00;28;01;16
Kate McNulty
Money look like for you? So if you're looking at major gifts, if you want to raise major gifts, and you want those big dollar donors, maybe the hospital down the street for them, a major gift is $100,000. But for you, it's five and that's five.

00;28;02;10 - 00;28;06;09
Kate McNulty
You should be scaling your philanthropy program to meet the needs.

00;28;06;13 - 00;28;07;06
Kate McNulty
Of.

00;28;07;09 - 00;28;09;05
Kate McNulty
Your size. Program?

00;28;10;02 - 00;28;36;13
Kate McNulty
And not sort of. I think there are some people who have some very high expectations starting out that, well, you know, Dana-Farber raises, you know, millions of dollars. Why can't we? Well, you can't because you don't have that kind of donor base. You know, you need to look at, you know, especially if you're an organization with a great deal of specificity, it can be more difficult.

00;28;36;15 - 00;29;00;11
Liz Church
So to expand on that a bit, can you elaborate on your experience supporting a nonprofit who is in the process of selecting a fundraising management system? And if I recall, this was something a dramatist assist with. Can you break down the importance of a donor management system? And for in this example, the process utilized to assist the organization and, you know, any notable outcomes that were achieved?

00;29;00;13 - 00;29;17;25
Kate McNulty
Of course, that's a very long question, but of course we'd be happy to do that. So I did some work a few years back to help a nonprofit client determine what donor management system or DMs that suited their needs. So as an up and coming nonprofit organization, they needed to grow their philanthropic arm.

00;29;17;27 - 00;29;19;20
Kate McNulty
The tools currently.

00;29;19;20 - 00;29;52;10
Kate McNulty
Used were insufficient. I think they were using an Excel spreadsheet and they were disjointed, so it was creating extra work and potentially unnecessary expenditures on their part, and they really needed a more streamlined, efficient donor management system that would help them organize that philanthropy work. However, there is an overwhelming number of DMs businesses in existence, and frankly, far too often the websites provide unclear or incomplete information, and that sort of inhibits the potential clients ability to assess if the services are actually a good fit for what they need.

00;29;52;12 - 00;30;13;27
Kate McNulty
And, our KVK was going they're going to need to sit through hours of demos to make a selection. And that said, as a sort of up and coming nonprofit organization with limited staff resources, they needed assistance in identifying, evaluating and selecting a DMs to organize their philanthropy work and help them grow. And so this is where dramatists stepped in.

00;30;13;29 - 00;30;43;08
Kate McNulty
So I work to assess the tasks they most needed the DMs to offer. And with that information, I created a sort of matrix outlining the required tasks and the sort of the Cadillac option that was desirable for a DMs, but not like mandatory. So that included things like tools or project management. So this is where like I could assign to you list a task right where you I'd say like in the DMs, I'd say, okay, here you need to call Mr. Joe Friday.

00;30;43;10 - 00;30;43;26
Kate McNulty
Sorry.

00;30;43;29 - 00;31;02;25
Kate McNulty
You need to call Mr. Joe Friday and interact with him about the upcoming event or, you know, donor scoring was another thing we looked at is, is something that shows you the depth of the donors engagement with the nonprofit. How often are they responding? Do they open the emails you send? Are they coming to the event? How many donations are they making?

00;31;02;25 - 00;31;23;01
Kate McNulty
How often, you know, do they answer her phone calls, that kind of thing? and then product training. So looking at if the training and assistance is provided in the flat fee that you're paying or, or is it ala carte, depending on what you're looking for. Donor level suggestions was another thing we looked at. This is a wealth determination tools to help donor asks you.

00;31;23;02 - 00;31;40;14
Kate McNulty
You don't want to ask for too much. You don't want to ask for too little. You want to kind of find that sweet spot for your donors. And then we looked at also things like fees associated with a product. Is everything included in the purchase for the add ons that require additional payment. And this is where we saw the least transparency with the DMs companies.

00;31;40;16 - 00;31;59;08
Kate McNulty
So for instance ticketing, this can be an option through your DMs for an event you're hosting. But sometimes there's hidden fees with the vendor, and you have to make a choice about who picks up the tab on asks you or the ticket purchaser. So and you know, just by the way, that is tax deductible. When they pay that fee, they can deduct that as well.

00;31;59;10 - 00;32;00;03
Kate McNulty
So those are some of the.

00;32;00;03 - 00;32;01;20
Kate McNulty
Examples of what we were looking at in that.

00;32;01;20 - 00;32;02;22
Kate McNulty
Matrix.

00;32;02;24 - 00;32;25;14
Kate McNulty
And from there looking at the basic parameters. And a dramatist colleague and I provided a list of options of different vendors. And then we had three vendors and we added two vendors that we identified that we wanted them to have a look at. And from there, we we proceeded to conduct an evaluation of the services by attending demos for each of the vendors and exchanging calls and emails, you know, seeking clarification and additional details.

00;32;25;17 - 00;32;52;01
Kate McNulty
Finally, we organized that information using the matrix. We found that while the vendors identified each offered like the basics and met minimum requirements, the extras and the levels of expertise varied really widely. And we found that DMs systems, built with the guidance of nonprofit philanthropy professionals, concentrated more heavily on donor retention and acquisition, which I think is really, you know, those are really key things.

00;32;52;03 - 00;33;00;24
Kate McNulty
And the systems that show that they, you know, these systems really understood the value of communicating with donors where they're at. And analyzing what worked for.

00;33;00;24 - 00;33;01;12
Kate McNulty
Who.

00;33;01;18 - 00;33;14;14
Kate McNulty
And when. You want to have a good rhythm with your donors, right. You want to make sure that you're paying attention to what they liked and disliked, what they're ignoring, and what they're paying attention to. So somebody who really likes to.

00;33;14;15 - 00;33;15;01
Kate McNulty
Golf.

00;33;15;08 - 00;33;38;27
Kate McNulty
You should stop sending them your five K stuff because they kind of maybe start to feel like you're just you're not interested in them as a donor and you're not paying attention to what their interests are as they're intersecting with your nonprofit, which, you know, in general, you know, providing a service that they think is important for their community, but they want to interact with your nonprofit on their terms, too.

00;33;38;27 - 00;34;02;06
Kate McNulty
And, you know, a good DMs can help you pay attention to those things. So ultimately, their need to grow meant selecting a database that provided in-depth AI and was allowing the analytics to guide the development of their philanthropy program. It was important for them that the most amount of support from the DMs was available for the most reasonable price, and they were choosing a database that was going to grow with them as they became larger.

00;34;02;06 - 00;34;23;21
Kate McNulty
So there are a lot of not a lot of things for nonprofits to consider when they're selecting a system. And no one really has time to do that. You know, I don't know any philanthropy staff that has, you know, huge amounts of people just sitting around waiting to do, you know, 90 minute demos and all kinds of follow up conversations about, you know, what the costs of everything are, what's hidden and what's not.

00;34;23;23 - 00;34;41;12
Kate McNulty
And I've worked for a health care nonprofit with a database we used was all a cart. Well, that sort of seems like, you know, there's this sort of offputting feeling to, oh my gosh, I'm like, why is it all included? I found that actually really worked for me because I didn't need website building or ticketing. our budget was too small to support the cost.

00;34;41;15 - 00;35;02;10
Kate McNulty
We don't really have time to be fussing around, and we were already using free websites like rent, sign up and give sign up. That was sufficient for us, but it did need to be able to pull donor reports quickly and have them segmented properly by fund. Because, you know, I report to reported to a board the same as most nonprofits and needed to be able to pull that information, have it at my fingertips.

00;35;02;12 - 00;35;20;08
Kate McNulty
But I also needed to be able to keep notes, when I contacted my donors last and who attended what events we hosted and things like that. But there is and, you know, there's I think in this matrix, I want to say there was something like 40 different components. So there was a there's a lot to look at, and some of it has to do with things like what systems you're already using.

00;35;20;08 - 00;35;39;00
Kate McNulty
If you're using G suite or you're using QuickBooks, you really might want to have those things work with the donor management tool that you select. You know, if you want to have like an online store those things. So swag to your donors. That's something you want to be looking at. So payment gateways all these things are important.

00;35;39;02 - 00;35;57;17
Liz Church
Yeah that's a lot of think a lot to think about. But I mean from the standpoint as a marketer, I, I love when those systems put everything into one thing because it makes the management of those things so much easier. I don't have to go find something or be like, okay, now I need to log in to this thing and I need to go back and forth constantly.

00;35;57;19 - 00;35;59;09
Liz Church
I need to try to make sure that stuff speaks.

00;35;59;09 - 00;36;00;20
Kate McNulty
To each other.

00;36;00;22 - 00;36;09;08
Kate McNulty
Liz church. Selecting a donor management system would be like this one has KPIs. The one I need those key performance indicators at my fingertips.

00;36;09;08 - 00;36;11;22
Kate McNulty
For going with this one. Yeah, absolutely.

00;36;11;29 - 00;36;29;26
Liz Church
I need to see my email like when the emails send, you know, I need to know when people subscribe to stuff I need. I need a lot like I'm but like I'm, I'm very needy. So I mean, thinking about it in this scope, I mean, with what a nonprofit would need for identifying donors and things like that. Like, I think there's an 80 to like.

00;36;29;26 - 00;36;36;13
Liz Church
You want to make sure that you stay on top of making those people feel important and that you you value what they can provide the organization.

00;36;36;17 - 00;36;40;03
Kate McNulty
Yeah. And I think that, both, you know, it's very person.

00;36;40;03 - 00;37;03;12
Kate McNulty
All for the person leading the philanthropy team. In some ways, that inflection of a database, like what is it that they need in one spot? Do you need to be able to pull up a donor file and find every email that's been sent to them, every thank you letter? Or, you know, do you need the emails to be generated out of that system and have it separated completely away from, like, other parts of the business?

00;37;03;14 - 00;37;07;03
Kate McNulty
Because maybe your department doesn't only handle philanthropy.

00;37;07;06 - 00;37;08;02
Kate McNulty
Or, you know.

00;37;08;02 - 00;37;15;25
Kate McNulty
It's it's very it's interesting. People have different wants with these things. And there's a lot of choices.

00;37;15;27 - 00;37;18;22
Kate McNulty
Some of them wildly expensive.

00;37;18;25 - 00;37;21;12
Kate McNulty
And some of them are pretty reasonably priced.

00;37;21;15 - 00;37;22;07
Kate McNulty
For what they. Yeah.

00;37;22;07 - 00;37;36;06
Kate McNulty
So and there's, you know, I think that especially with smaller teams that are growing what some of the important things center around workflow and making sure people understand what they need to be doing and when.

00;37;36;09 - 00;37;37;13
Kate McNulty
Yes.

00;37;37;16 - 00;37;40;07
Liz Church
I know, what are you doing and when. Yeah.

00;37;40;09 - 00;37;55;10
Kate McNulty
You have a donor whose wife's birthday you need to remember. You want to have that in there, right? We it's was so busy. And the difficulty is that, for most nonprofits, your donors are really special to you. There are these people who value so much because they really believe in what you're.

00;37;55;10 - 00;37;58;09
Kate McNulty
Doing just as much as you do.

00;37;58;09 - 00;38;03;13
Kate McNulty
And so you want them to feel special, but it can be hard to stay on top of all those things.

00;38;03;15 - 00;38;04;02
Kate McNulty
So you.

00;38;04;03 - 00;38;05;18
Kate McNulty
A good donor management system is.

00;38;05;18 - 00;38;06;26
Kate McNulty
Really vital.

00;38;06;28 - 00;38;15;16
Liz Church
Speaking of vitality, what interim steps may a organization take from a new development program to a full on development program?

00;38;15;19 - 00;38;17;21
Kate McNulty
I think that consulting services.

00;38;17;27 - 00;38;18;05
Kate McNulty
Can.

00;38;18;05 - 00;38;19;16
Kate McNulty
Be very.

00;38;19;22 - 00;38;21;10
Kate McNulty
Helpful with this sort of thing.

00;38;21;17 - 00;38;47;25
Kate McNulty
So if you are a animal shelter in Canterbury, Connecticut, you're not going to fundraise in Atlanta, Georgia, you're going to fundraise in Canterbury, Connecticut, because that's really where your clients are. So your guests who are coming looking for to adopt the animals are in your area. People are not necessarily coming from Texas to come in, right. So you're going to look at what kind of support you can get in your area.

00;38;47;25 - 00;38;58;19
Kate McNulty
And it might be a broad area. So in Canterbury, Connecticut, it might say, oh, you know, Clinton's a fairly wealthy town and it's nearer ish to where we are. And I've had you know, you're going to look at.

00;38;58;24 - 00;38;59;08
Kate McNulty
Where.

00;38;59;08 - 00;39;11;08
Kate McNulty
The people are from who are adopting your animals and sort of then from there say, these are likely the people who are going to give us funding because they now have an animal they love in their home because we are here.

00;39;11;10 - 00;39;11;26
Kate McNulty
In order to.

00;39;11;26 - 00;39;30;27
Kate McNulty
Continue being here, we need their support. So those are the first people you're going to start talking with and asking for assistance with. And within those people you'll find as you go along, as you sort of do, your listening to people who are really invested, and those are the people you want to sort of cultivate to start helping you get on your feet.

00;39;30;27 - 00;39;53;14
Kate McNulty
But to to sort of get the ball rolling, you might talk to your organization that has a philanthropy, ask them how they did it, or you could contact, for instance, our company, our firm and say, you know, we'd love a little help on planning out mapping out how we're going to do our philanthropy program, because it has it should progress into next steps until you get to what your goal is.

00;39;53;24 - 00;39;54;18
Kate McNulty
right.

00;39;54;20 - 00;40;08;01
Liz Church
So if an entity comes to Odometers for any assistance, what kind of things would you recommend that they had to have in order to come to us? Like, is there anything like we need to know what kind of organization that you are or, you know?

00;40;08;01 - 00;40;09;13
Kate McNulty
So no, I wouldn't.

00;40;09;13 - 00;40;11;06
Kate McNulty
Say there is. I'd say that's on us.

00;40;11;09 - 00;40;12;12
Kate McNulty
Right.

00;40;12;14 - 00;40;15;12
Kate McNulty
In particular, I'd say that's on me to sort of tease out.

00;40;15;14 - 00;40;17;24
Kate McNulty
What it is you think you're here for and.

00;40;17;24 - 00;40;28;15
Kate McNulty
Then help figure out, is that accurate? Is that really what you need, or do you need something else? And then from there to sort of help start mapping out what that journey needs to look like.

00;40;28;22 - 00;40;28;27
Kate McNulty
And.

00;40;28;27 - 00;40;35;05
Kate McNulty
What the different steps are on the way. What are your tasks? Having done this a bunch of times, I'm pretty.

00;40;35;07 - 00;40;38;27
Kate McNulty
Skilled at at this point, and so it was really.

00;40;38;27 - 00;40;44;20
Kate McNulty
Uncomfortable saying that I have yet to see our firm hire someone that I'm like, I just don't want to help do this, right?

00;40;44;20 - 00;40;45;14
Kate McNulty
Like, yeah.

00;40;45;14 - 00;41;02;14
Kate McNulty
I have every client I've had. I felt really fortunate to be involved in their journey, be providing assistance. And you sometimes when we do these larger projects, I think, oh, I wish I could like meet the people who are using the products that we've put out for them to, like, help guide them. It's like, I think that's from my Senate days.

00;41;02;14 - 00;41;04;14
Kate McNulty
I miss hearing from people.

00;41;04;16 - 00;41;06;13
Kate McNulty
About these things, but I.

00;41;06;13 - 00;41;07;13
Kate McNulty
Think that you just need to.

00;41;07;13 - 00;41;08;03
Kate McNulty
Walk.

00;41;08;03 - 00;41;12;13
Kate McNulty
It's like, you know, you're walking through the door saying, we've got an issue, that we need some.

00;41;12;13 - 00;41;12;22
Kate McNulty
Help.

00;41;12;22 - 00;41;36;05
Kate McNulty
Figuring out, because at the end of the day, I might say something to you along the lines of, you don't really need a huge fund development program. You need a more robust grant program and to host two small scale events each year in order to get some recognition in the community. To have that support. Or you need peer to peer fundraising because you're not going to be able to sustain anything internally.

00;41;36;09 - 00;41;37;15
Kate McNulty
Right? I think.

00;41;37;15 - 00;41;42;04
Kate McNulty
The you know, I as much as I want to drum up business, I would never say, yes, let's do this.

00;41;42;04 - 00;41;43;05
Kate McNulty
Thing.

00;41;43;16 - 00;41;58;26
Kate McNulty
I might say you are you are grossly unprepared. And so here's some first steps and come back in six months and then we'll talk because it is a large endeavor. And you do like I said, you really need to be prepared. Then the funds in order to raise the funds. And that's usually where I see people.

00;41;58;28 - 00;42;01;10
Kate McNulty
Entities a little less prepared.

00;42;01;10 - 00;42;03;12
Kate McNulty
Right. So if you want.

00;42;03;12 - 00;42;04;07
Kate McNulty
To.

00;42;04;09 - 00;42;09;02
Kate McNulty
Acquire, for instance, very few organizations can support someone who writes.

00;42;09;02 - 00;42;09;07
Kate McNulty
And.

00;42;09;07 - 00;42;11;10
Kate McNulty
Organizes federal grants, for instance.

00;42;11;13 - 00;42;11;25
Kate McNulty
It's very.

00;42;11;25 - 00;42;30;26
Kate McNulty
Specific. They're very complicated. The administration, I believe, is Do is looking into that and hopefully doing something about how overly complex these are, both in terms of making the application and then complying with it administratively because it's not over. Once you get the money right, you still have a lot to do, and it is federal dollars and you don't want to mess.

00;42;30;26 - 00;42;35;23
Kate McNulty
That up because it's big trouble, right? It's like really big trouble. But so.

00;42;35;25 - 00;42;38;12
Kate McNulty
I think that some, you know, sometimes.

00;42;38;14 - 00;42;38;27
Kate McNulty
Having.

00;42;38;27 - 00;42;41;15
Kate McNulty
The external assistance for a brief amount of.

00;42;41;15 - 00;42;42;28
Kate McNulty
Time.

00;42;43;00 - 00;42;58;23
Kate McNulty
Is better than having hiring someone for something that you might not want them to do all the time. I think we talked about this a little bit before. You might find that the fund development professional doesn't have enough to do if you're not big enough, so you need to. And but of course, you can't hire someone.

00;42;58;26 - 00;42;59;13
Kate McNulty
For multiple.

00;42;59;13 - 00;43;00;09
Kate McNulty
Jobs unless you do it.

00;43;00;09 - 00;43;01;06
Kate McNulty
Upfront.

00;43;01;08 - 00;43;20;16
Liz Church
The reason I had asked you about, like the preparation and stuff is because I don't think organizations have a hard time asking for help, but I think it is kind of it is difficult to say to someone like, help me get more money, because some people might take it as, oh, they're just wanting a handout. And I think that's the thing that some people have a hard time.

00;43;20;16 - 00;43;33;17
Liz Church
People being like external entities have a hard time understanding, like, no, I just want you to help me continue to do this good thing. So that's why I asked, like, how prepared do they need to be? Because I think to ask for help, it might be a daunting thing.

00;43;33;19 - 00;43;34;07
Kate McNulty
Yeah.

00;43;34;10 - 00;43;43;13
Kate McNulty
I think the first is I agree with you completely, but it's the reminder that it's not a handout, it's a hand up. It's a hand in.

00;43;43;16 - 00;43;46;21
Kate McNulty
Right. It's it's not. Now nobody's looking.

00;43;46;24 - 00;44;06;18
Kate McNulty
For something for their personal gain. Right. All of these organizations are looking for funding to support something that betters the community, betters the lives of our human beings. You know, our fellow human beings. it's a it's a different way of thinking. Philanthropy is fun development.

00;44;06;21 - 00;44;07;12
Kate McNulty
It's helping.

00;44;07;12 - 00;44;09;12
Kate McNulty
People turn the corner of the.

00;44;09;12 - 00;44;10;20
Kate McNulty
Handout versus.

00;44;10;20 - 00;44;11;19
Kate McNulty
The hand up or hand.

00;44;11;19 - 00;44;12;14
Kate McNulty
In.

00;44;12;16 - 00;44;23;24
Liz Church
The thing that I think people need to take away is that organizations are trying to do good things. And I think it's the thing that we need to keep in mind. It's like doing good things to make things better.

00;44;23;27 - 00;44;25;14
Kate McNulty
And it's a it's.

00;44;25;14 - 00;44;25;27
Kate McNulty
A matter.

00;44;25;27 - 00;44;26;04
Kate McNulty
Of.

00;44;26;08 - 00;44;47;28
Kate McNulty
Asking definitely aren't going to get anything if you ask for nothing. Very rarely has that have we ever had somebody say, hey, I want to be involved. What do I do? Or what do you need? Right? That's not as common outside of maybe board members not needing to be solicited quite so much. But you you definitely need to ask.

00;44;48;01 - 00;45;07;14
Kate McNulty
And the asking is the hard part for people, because they don't want to feel like they're asking for something they shouldn't be, or they're they're burdening somebody. And money for most people's is very sensitive things. And all of this is as important in many ways as fundraising, because, you know, that also can help if you're a health care organization.

00;45;07;14 - 00;45;08;14
Kate McNulty
In particular.

00;45;08;17 - 00;45;09;15
Kate McNulty
It's,

00;45;09;17 - 00;45;13;16
Kate McNulty
Supports your reputation and your positive reputation in the community.

00;45;13;19 - 00;45;14;03
Kate McNulty
To be.

00;45;14;03 - 00;45;30;10
Kate McNulty
Out and about, letting people know what you're doing and that you're there to support them. It doesn't always have to seem so mercenary. I think the hard part, especially for leaders in some of these organizations, is, you know, if you're a small mental health provider, you kind of.

00;45;30;12 - 00;45;30;19
Kate McNulty
Feel.

00;45;30;19 - 00;45;49;15
Kate McNulty
Like you're toeing the line between what's appropriate when you're approaching patients for assistance and supporting the business. But to keep in mind that, you know, patients are often some of the people who are most interested in supporting the work because they've benefited quite a bit from it. It's offering a chance to be involved and not just take the services and then go.

00;45;49;15 - 00;45;59;16
Kate McNulty
But it is uncomfortable, I think, for a lot of people because it is about perpetuating the business. Right. And so that's the piece that starts to feel really wonky for people, which is understandable.

00;45;59;26 - 00;46;00;08
Kate McNulty
because.

00;46;00;13 - 00;46;11;13
Kate McNulty
There are organizations who maybe shouldn't be fundraising because they have enough. I understand the this is where you maybe do want that professional to come in and go through. Why why do we.

00;46;11;13 - 00;46;12;23
Kate McNulty
Fundraise and.

00;46;12;23 - 00;46;15;23
Kate McNulty
How do we talk about it and sort of the psychology of.

00;46;15;23 - 00;46;18;14
Kate McNulty
It, and helping people.

00;46;18;16 - 00;46;33;23
Kate McNulty
Feel less burdened, being involved with the philanthropy program and learning to have your staff play to their strengths. Right. Like you might have staff phenomenal at a golf tournament, and you can't have your golf outing without them because they do this amazing job, but they're never going to go to.

00;46;34;16 - 00;46;34;29
Kate McNulty
A donor.

00;46;34;29 - 00;46;36;10
Kate McNulty
Visit or.

00;46;36;12 - 00;46;42;09
Kate McNulty
Identify a patient who might want to be involved because that's not their strength. So it's figuring out who and your staff has, what strengths.

00;46;42;09 - 00;46;57;25
Liz Church
Are a really good way to put it. Oh, there was something you said that I would so I so I was going to reshape the end but like to, to talk about community. It's bolstering the community because philanthropy work ties to the community. This is a large world and there's challenges to it that are part of it.

00;46;57;27 - 00;47;15;02
Liz Church
You know, what's a piece of advice or a call to action that you could leave everyone with? You know, regardless of me, I have no idea how this world works. you know, how can we all contribute to the the bringing together health care, you know, without being like, oh, I don't have the experience or not knowing where to start.

00;47;15;04 - 00;47;25;10
Kate McNulty
It's interesting. It isn't it? It has to do with sort of that imposter syndrome. Why would it be? I'm not an expert. Well, if you use the service or someone you know, use the service.

00;47;25;13 - 00;47;26;03
Kate McNulty
Or.

00;47;26;09 - 00;47;34;13
Kate McNulty
You know, just deep down you feel the service in your community is important. I think sometimes it's about having the right.

00;47;34;13 - 00;47;39;20
Kate McNulty
Words to express what you feel about it. Right?

00;47;39;20 - 00;48;01;29
Kate McNulty
Why you think it's important that, a methadone clinic is in your community? or why you think it's important that a dog shelter is in your community? because you're correct. It is about, you know, supporting the community. These are some of our part of our safety net. We think that the safety net really is just this thing provided by the government.

00;48;01;29 - 00;48;15;10
Kate McNulty
But it's not it's it involves a lot of different things. Right. And it's about access. And I think that I do think it is about making sure people have the words to express why something's important.

00;48;16;17 - 00;48;17;25
Kate McNulty
that escapes a lot of us.

00;48;17;25 - 00;48;42;16
Kate McNulty
You know, I don't know, maybe we're tired or it's just one more thing to think about, but I think that something that nonprofits could do better, for some of them, and this is really your wheelhouse is coming up with those words that very succinctly explain why their presence in the community is important and what makes them part of the community.

00;48;42;19 - 00;48;44;09
Liz Church
Telling the story.

00;48;44;12 - 00;48;48;28
Kate McNulty
Yeah, telling the story and maybe having those words can make you feel a little less like an imposter or.

00;48;48;28 - 00;48;50;00
Kate McNulty
Like going.

00;48;50;00 - 00;49;14;20
Kate McNulty
Around sex thing is so important. This thing is so important. And maybe entities forewarning you, you know, for instance, with mental illness and substance use disorder, there's a lot of misinformation and stigma around these things. so being warned that you might hear things that are hurtful, or being very cautious about, for instance, staff, you know, who will feel very wounded if they hear something.

00;49;14;20 - 00;49;15;08
Kate McNulty
That's.

00;49;15;10 - 00;49;32;19
Kate McNulty
Unkind or, you know, in our world it's it's person first language. And that's very difficult for a lot of people because they don't have those words, right. They don't know not to call somebody about it because it's mean. That's a mean thing to say or to say someone's an alcoholic. Like they live with alcoholism. They live with substance use disorder.

00;49;32;21 - 00;49;51;03
Kate McNulty
We don't call someone a cancer. But there's also no the stigma around those things is lessen. I think that nonprofits oftentimes are doing work because there are people who have differences, or because there are very unfortunate things, sad things that happen.

00;49;51;28 - 00;50;03;26
Kate McNulty
And so they can be this reminder that somebody cares about bridging a gap or filling a hole. And it can be a positive thing. It can be a positive thing, even though.

00;50;03;26 - 00;50;07;02
Kate McNulty
They're working on something that's negative.

00;50;07;02 - 00;50;19;16
Liz Church
Right. I think it boils down to remembering the positive effect. Tell the story and know that you're doing something good that benefits people in a positive way. Thank you for coming and talking to me today.

00;50;19;21 - 00;50;22;09
Kate McNulty
It was fun talking to you as always, so thank you for having it.

00;50;22;14 - 00;51;26;28
Liz Church
Of course. Absolutely. I love talking to it. The Atrómitos Way is produced by me, Liz Church. Editorial assistance for this episode was by my fantastic team at Atrómitos. I would like to express our heartfelt appreciation to our guests who shared their expertise, stories, and insights with us on the podcast—finally, a big thank you to our listeners. Your support and engagement have meant the world to us at Atrómitos.  

We are a boutique consulting firm with the imperative mission of creating healthier, more resilient, more equitable communities. I encourage you to connect with us. Let’s continue these conversations and work together towards positive change. 

You can listen to all of our previous episodes on our website,  

atromitosconsulting.com/atromitos-way.  

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